How to Overcome Imposter Syndrome & Build Your Expert Brand with Christine Blosdale

Judy Oskam: 0:02

Hey, welcome back to Stories of Change and Creativity. I'm so excited that you're sharing your time with me. I'm Judy Oskam and I'm a professor in the School of Journalism and Mass Communication at Texas State University. On this show, I like to talk with changemakers and creative thinkers who share practical strategies and stories that help us grow and thrive, and on this episode, I think you will enjoy it. If you've ever felt imposter syndrome well, I know I have, and it's not easy to keep moving forward in this world. But if you felt imposter syndrome and wondered what to do with your brand, your focus, your image, well, this could be the show for you. My guest is Christine Blosdale. She's an expert authority business coach and she helps people clarify their message, expand their reach and serve their communities in the best way possible. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Give the audience a little elevator pitch, if you will.

Well, I am Christine Blosdale and I am an expert authority business coach. And when I tell people that they're like, what is that? And I say, well, I help overwhelmed especially women in business who are wearing so many hats and trying to be an accountant and a marketing genius and a social media guru and actually do your craft right, what it is you want to do in business and I help them take that overwhelm away and work on ways that we can expand their expert authority so that they can show up and get the message across on different platforms, but get the message across about how they serve their community or their clients or their customers in the best way possible, if that makes sense, yeah, and we're always just trying to get the message out, but it seems like sometimes we get in the way, right?

Yes, yes, we do, yes, well, and especially right now, you know, we do become overwhelmed, we're overstimulated by, you know, all the things that we're told we should be doing, and so what happens is a lot of times that we're told we should be doing, and so what happens is, a lot of times it's kind of like in California there was a place called Jerry's Deli and I loved Jerry's Deli because they had the most amazing food you can imagine.

But I would go and I would look at the menu and I would get overwhelmed because it had a thousand different things that you could order. And so what happened is, in that paralysis of trying to decide, I would just, I'm just going to get the matzo ball soup and potato pancake, because I know that right, but it was just so many choices, and that's what happens in our business lives. A lot of times we're told do this, do that, don't do this, and so we become paralyzed and then we don't do anything, or we just throw something up on social. Well, you know, say, I posted on social media but I'm not getting clients. Well, maybe because you're not going to where your clients or potential clients are and you're not speaking to them in a language that they understand and you're not addressing their issues. So we work on all of that and create a persona for that person, a brand for that person.

Yeah, well, and you help create and market the message, if you will. How did you start? How did you get into that? Was that? Did that start when you were a kid? I listened to some of your other podcast interviews and I think, I think you have an early start there with storytelling.

I did. I had also my you know my mother, who has she recently passed, and and my mother instilled in me this, this knowingness that my opinion mattered because I was a hyper.

I was very aware of everything. I could look, I could go into a room and if I saw a picture on the wall and it was just askew, just a little, I would go over there and adjust it. Yeah, exactly so. But I was also very aware when we'd go out to dinner and I was aware of how the place looked and the food and how it was served, and I would always give feedback I'd give feedback, as a little kid, you know to waiters and things like that.

And so even when she would get ready to go to work my mom was a single mom and she had to work very late nights and so after dinner I'd sit around with her and before she would go to work she'd get dressed and she would put on her makeup and get her hair all done and she would put on her clothes and she would ask my opinion and she'd say Christine, what do you think about this? Does this go? And I'd go, uh, and I'd stand there and I'd go, no, I think that skirt would be better with that and and she would change.

Yeah, yeah, you know, she listened, yeah, she listened and she valued my opinion and um and thankfully I was, I had good taste you know, thankfully I wasn't having her go outside wearing some weird outfit Right.

Right, but. But at a very early age I had that confidence that my opinion mattered, but also that I can communicate, that in a way, I communicate it better now than when I was five. Sure, sure, but that's how it started. And then life and its journeys took me into broadcast radio for 20 years and in that process I started as a producer behind the scenes, didn't want to be on the mic, I wanted to be behind the scenes and and create the shows and do all the research and all that good stuff.

But then, um, I had it was a weird opportunity where they said we need you to do the show, we need you to go on the microphone, and I was like no, no, no, no, I'm, I'm, I'm the wizard behind the scenes, you know the Oz. And they said no, no, we need you to go on the microphone. And I was like no, no, no, no, no, I'm, I'm, I'm the wizard behind the scenes, you know the oz. And they said no, no, we, we have to because the host is sick and we need. The show has to go on.

So hollywood style yes, that's true, though that's life, though that's life, yeah, you just say yes, you say yes, and begrudgingly I said okay, and and I put my headphones on, or the cans, as they say in the industry pulled the microphone close to me and the on-air light went on and it just changed my whole life. I just I connected with an audience that I couldn't see. I couldn't see them or hear them, but I felt them and I connected and that began my love affair with audio and radio broadcasting and the art of the interview.

And you know, judy, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it how many great gems you can get in the art of the interview.

Yeah, and how audio it's. You know the arena of the mind, you know whatever that saying is, you know.

It's an intimate art form.

It's a very intimate art form it is, and I think voice is so key to connecting with people and I think that's probably part of what you coach. It sounds like to me also, you have the heart and the spirit of a teacher because, even though you were sharing that and coaching your mom even and I'm sorry about your mom. Uh, sorry about her passing.

I'm I'm in my mom's house right now and she's 94 oh, wow yeah, oh yeah, oh, you're blessed to have that I am so blessed and I've done a podcast interview with her too, so that's another one I'll have to say okay, I gotta.

I want to hear that. Can you send that to me?

I will, I will, I will, I will. But I think you know, having the spirit of a teacher, in that you're not only talking at the audience but you're bringing them along with you and coaching and teaching as you go, and I think that need to share information and correct the picture on the wall, and all of that too is so vital, it's so important. Well, looking back and I'll have this, you know, a question for you what would you tell your younger self, now that you've kind of gone through the journey, and what would you say to your younger self?

because I think that's something I want to kind of explore a little bit further yes, well, I, even though my mother gave me a lot of confidence with with her, I was incredibly shy. I was very shy. And so I would probably tell my younger self you know, it's okay to come out, it's okay to come out from behind your grandmother's recliner, right? But I, I think I was a bit, I was a bit cautious because I had my mother's. Being with my mother was one thing and then being with my father was another. My dad was very much an alcoholic and I never knew when the door would open, who was coming in.

And so as a child and I think many children who go through that we're very resilient, right we're. I mean, my goodness, we can adapt. But I think we become hypervigilant and that hypervigilance can be a benefit for us later in life. But I think I would really love's okay to step outside and shine your light. Now I do because I've healed so much. But I see it also in my clients as well, and those are the clients too that a lot of times have that imposter syndrome. And that's the first thing that we work on when I'm working with a client, if I feel that they have that, and it doesn't matter how successful they are. They could have degrees up the wall and they could be CEOs and all of that. But when you have that little voice inside of your head, or something that happened when you were a little kid, telling you you're not good enough, you know you're stupid or who's going to listen to you.

Those voices, those messages can really hold back a lot of great genius, and so my job is especially with women is to break through for that, and I have several different ways that I work with people on getting rid of that imposter syndrome.

Well, and Cher, give us two or three things that where do we start with that? Because I have a lot of students who graduate and they're getting out in the workforce and new graduates that have been out there for a job or two. And I talked with a student today who's now's told me on the on the zoom call that I'm 35 now and I'm like, wow, I mean I was starting another career at 35. And but what do you? What are two or three things you can tell people, just to kind of get started. What's? How do we deal with the voice in our head?

I would say, and first of all, to take away any shame that you have with that or you know, because a lot of times we beat ourselves up, we say I can't believe that, I even doubt myself because I have done this, that and the other. But what we need to do is break it down and find out what kind of imposter syndrome we have, right? So some people have. Just, they don't feel that they deserve the success, they don't deserve the accolades or the attention that if they're let's say, they're even creating a video, you know, and inside they don't feel that they deserve. So that's one type. But then the other type is what will people think of me? Right? What are people going to say or think about me? Or, if I can't do it perfectly which is a myth if I can't do it perfectly, I don't want to do it at all.

And so there's different ways that I deal with the person and the personality, but I always try and bring it home to this, and when I say this, people look at me like I'm crazy. But I say, even though we're working on your branding, we're working on your messaging and the avatar of you who we're going to put out in the world. It's actually not about you and they go what? And I said it's not about you, it's about the people that you say you want to serve. If you're a fitness coach and you say I want to help people lose weight or feel better in their bodies, be healthier, focus on them, because if you don't show up, that person does not get to succeed and have a healthier life right, and get to be with their kids and grandkids.

So same thing with your clients. I know that I need to show up and I need to share my teaching skills. I need to share the things that I know with my clients because if not, they're going to stay stuck in their areas, right. So this way we can all rise. So it's not about myself and how I look or what people are going to say about me. I need to focus on them and that helps a lot. It does.

Well, and I think too, it gives them permission to go forward. So is what you do give them permission and a green light? Really?

Yes, because then they remember why they're doing it, they remember why they got into it. Oh, that's right, I wanted to be a coach because I wanted to help people get rid of, you know, to become successful, to make more money or to get over those things that were, you know, bothering them. A lot of people, especially in, you know, in the life coaching business, a lot of people struggle themselves. It's kind of like, you know, therapists A lot of times therapists have had a really rough childhood, right.

That's why they got into it Right.

Psychologists Right, that's why they've gotten into it. So, but we need to. We need to somewhat heal ourselves in order to be that light or that beacon for other people. And it's about being human, it's about being authentic, it's about being relatable. This idea of being perfect and I'm a guru and everything I do is correct is just it's false. And so you're going to disconnect from your potential clients and things like that. When you're real, that's a very attractive quality right. Because people think they can trust you, because they're like oh, she's actually real.

She messes up too every now and then Right, right, well, and just to take that first step, though and that's why we're always you know a lot of our students, and my own daughter is working in social media Both my daughters are working in social media and the whole image based industry of social media. I'm so excited that it is turning to be more authentic excited that it is turning to be more authentic.

Yes, it is. Yes, well, we see it all around us, don't we judy? We see, we see the, the crumbling of the uh, the, the goddess on the hill type thing, right, the, the kardashian perfectionism. We see it in politics, we see it in hollywood. We see it in Hollywood. We see it in the music industry. People are turning away from that and with the popularity of TikTok, I can't tell you how many people that are on TikTok that I follow are genuine Right and they're real and they're raw and messy and just and messy and beautiful and you know, and funny and um, all of that, but it's because we're craving that we're we're not watching the television news, we're not.

Uh, you know it, the days of dynasty. I, I don't know I do.

Yes, I do. I remember as a kid. I'm probably older than you.

so I had to watch that dynasty because we wanted to see those you you know. Oh, my goodness, what's she wearing now? And the lifestyle of the rich and famous? Now we're finding out the lifestyle of the rich and famous is kind of weird, you know we can't relate with that.

Yeah, yeah, oh, I think that's interesting. Well, I think too, as far as you know, you know, when you look at what you offer your clients and your, your, uh, the experts, that you, the expert, coach, coach, um, what book or exercise or resource do you usually recommend the most? What do you? And you've written a number of books yourself, by the way, so yeah, when it when it comes to books, I do.

I I like the reason why I have five. I have five books that I've published and four of them are about podcasting, and that's everything from how to create your own podcast to the importance why you're all over the place on all the different platforms. It helps train you into being like knowing exactly what it is that you do and saying this is what I do, this is how I do it, right, but the last book that I did, I deviate. I just I went away from the whole just podcasting thing and focused on social media.

I saw that on your website?

Yeah, and that's the social media and branding survival guide. And I had to have a funny because I like to have fun. I'm not a serious person I could tell. So the subtitle is digital marketing, so irresistible, even your ex will want to follow you. Right, and I crossed out X on the cover.

I love it.

So I like to give my clients the first thing that I do is actually I give them that book as a little gifty for them to check it out. But there's a lot of my little tips and secrets and things that I use that helps make my life so much easier to help me produce content, be it books or podcasts or videos or blogs or things like that. All these tools that I use that make my life so much easier that I can pass on to my clients and then they can, depending on the person, because some people are not podcast host material right, but they need to get on video, they need to get on camera, and so there's a couple tips and things in there.

Oh, I love that. I love that because I always want to know give me the resources and then I'll share that.

And you know that would be great. So and it's a fun read. It's a fun, there's some humor in it?

Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure. Well, and in addition to reading the book, how else do you help someone sort of uncover their voice and shape their media image? What's the first step if we're wanting to try and do that?

So the very first thing that I do, well, after we've dealt with, if there's any imposter syndrome, ickiness going on or that scarcity mindset we kind of address, that.

I love that yeah.

But the first thing that we do is this is my. This is only a one pager. This is now I've got. It's a four page media kit. But the first thing that we do is we create the brand of the person. That we do is we create the brand of the person. Okay, so I like to create a media kit that and that media kit will always grow and expand. It's like a resume.

You're going to add to it, you're going to change it, you're going to tweak it, but in the beginning it's a wonderful thing to have to even just put in front of you know, next to your computer, right when you're doing your work, when you're writing those emails, and you're kind of doubting, you're like, why am I doing this? Um, it's basically to tell you, to remind you who you are okay um, with your, of course, with your a professional headshot.

You need a professional photo of you, not these, unless you're like an amazing photographer who is like, but that's rare, right, we want to have a professional photo of our face. Okay, I don't care how old you are, how young you are, just put the money towards a photo shoot. And it's not a good tip, very good tip. It's not going to cost you a fortune, so that particular photo is going to open doors for you, okay, more than you think. So invest in that.

Then we work on just creating a short bio Short, please, not too long. Don't go on and on and on about I went to college. No, no, no, no. So we take the, we pluck the jewels from the crown, basically, and we showcase those things. And then we we talk about all of the if there's, if you have, you know, if you have recognitions and awards and things like that, but also we start plotting in there where you've appeared. As seen on is a very common thing that we do when we're doing a media or press kit, and it's important for people who are journalists or who are podcast hosts or people that might hire you, to know that you actually follow through and we're building your expert authority. By what kind of programs that you've been on? What kind of contributions have you written for the wall street journal you?

know, all these different things. So we build that media kit for you and that media kit is something you can put on your website. It's something that you can send out to potential clients but also to get you more media coverage. So TV producers, radio talk show hosts and things like that, you can send that media kit and it's in a PDF format so that they can click on the links. They can click on your website.

I love that.

But it's a way to showcase you and, most importantly, it's you. I like to print it out in color and I like to have it right in front of me so I'm reminded. I'm reminded of what I, what I do and also what I've accomplished Right.

And the first yeah, and the process of just doing that helps you hone your message Right.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And then when I get to, you know I'll get to the the we we've done all this stuff with the client and put their picture up and all their little things. And then I'll say, okay, so we're going to talk now about we're going to pitch you to the media, right? So let's talk about suggested topics. What are some really juicy suggested topics that are going to appeal to someone who wants their audience to get the best right. So we'll go through that and we'll put that on the media kit. Then we will even put suggested questions, because the easier you make it and trust me, after 20 years in broadcast journalism is a radio talk show host when somebody has the questions. Not that I'm going to ask those questions, yeah, but I read it, I read yours there. You go Because because then it gives it, helps the host out and you want to help them. Go because because then it gives it, helps the host out and you want to help them.

You want to make it as easy as possible for them to say yes, I want you to be on my show, or yes, I want to write about you in the magazine.

I love that. I love that well, and I think that's a very creative approach. Then, when you make the pitches and you help people make the pitch, well, creativity creativity is kind of. I love finding out how people stay creative. How do you stay creative personally? What do you do?

I, just I, I, I'm a little creation machine, so I, like, I, I've written. I mean, I wrote my book of you know, a little while ago and I'm already thinking, I'm already in my mind.

Oh, what's next yeah?

Right, I need to write another one. I think I, I, I'm, and I'm already thinking, I'm already in my mind what's next? Yeah, right, I need to write another one. I think I, I'm, and I'm a weird numbers person. So I'm at five now, but I like the wholesomeness of like 10, but that's like I'm halfway there, so I've got like five more that I need to do, right? Um, in addition to doing the audio books that's another thing I produce my own audio books.

Oh, I love that yes.

That's a whole other beast.

Yeah.

But it's fabulous. It's so much fun If you're listen, if you're listening to this and you're an author and you've written, especially if it's nonfiction. Fiction is tough because you got to be characters. Yeah, if it's nonfiction, look into creating the audio book and make sure it's in your voice and not somebody else's voice. But it's, it's. It is a process. I have a few clients that I walk through the process. It's great. Help them, help them produce that audio book. Man, it's so cool when you're like on a long road trip and you just you, with your friends or your family, and you go, oh, let's listen to an audio book, and you just start putting your friends or your family and you go, oh, let's listen to an audiobook, and you just start putting your, your audiobook up there.

That's so great, that's great, that's great, that's great. Well, any tips that you do to keep creative yourself and what do you do on a daily basis? Do you have a routine, do you? I'm always looking at what. What can, what ideas can I steal on productivity and how do and how do you? How do you?

keep creative. I don't really. I don't really have a routine, except for I'm very conscious of when I need to have a break because I can be uh, I can work too much right. Because I, because I love, I love creating and I love co-creating with my clients. Um knowing where. You have to take that break now. I'm based in new south wales, australia. I'm from california originally, um. My wife found me. She found me on instagram many years ago and you moved down there.

I love it so I've been here, but I have to get up quite early. Yes, because most of my clients are in America, so on the East Coast especially. So I have to get up really, really early, and so what I do is my day is full from 5.30, 6 am all the way till about 12 or 1. And then I force myself to stop and get away from the computer.

That's good.

And then I force myself to stop and get away from the computer, and that can be. That can be everything from, you know, even cleaning up the house, or going grocery shopping, or getting outside for a bit getting some fresh air, but I have to do that in order to come back and feel refreshed.

If not, then I, I, just you have to have those moments where you know to take care of yourself, and so that's the most important thing is to know when to when to burn it and when to like chill well and I bet you face that with your clients as well I bet they have to really look at their whole workflow, right? I mean, you must look at that and and give them some guidance on that as well, because that's all part of the deal.

I do have to sometimes pull people back a little bit, because I have one wonderfully, amazingly talented client who is so smart and so successful, already has several businesses and is launching another, a whole other business, and I'm working with her on that, and we call it having a lot of tabs open. I don't know about you. Like, on my computer I have a lot of tabs open, right, a lot of browser tabs. But this wonderful client of mine, she has so many, so she's spinning so many plates and you can even hear it when she's talking, right. And so I, my job with her is to bring her down and focus on one thing at a time, and because if we get too busy spinning all those plates, eventually a plate is going to drop right.

Or our health is going to be affected or something along those lines. So we're, I'm, I'm corralling all that genius and bringing it into a space where we can create something really magnificent and give her the best bang for her buck, the best bang for her energy and focused attention. So so, yeah, so different people you know I've, and there's some clients that I can just say this is what we need to do, and they're off and they do it, and then others that accountability, so I need to be with them.

You know quite often to say now.

Did you do this? Let's do it together then, if it's hard for you to do it on yourself, by yourself let's do it together.

Well, and I think putting yourself out in the world is a challenge. Give us an example of a client that you've had. That was really a little bit imposter syndrome maybe, but then, once they figured out your formula and with your guidance, how are they doing now? Give us an example, if you can.

I have a couple different ones, and, and one client who really, uh, impacted me was, um, a woman from uh, where she was based in china and she was a. She was, no, she was. She was born in china, she was living in germany and in, you know, in germany, uh, performance art is like a big thing, right, very different than like United States, yeah, things like that. But she was a performance artist and man, when she was doing performance art, you know it was wild all this. You know, she was just on stage and doing her thing and she was in her zone, right, and you could just see her just like amazing stuff that she would create.

Well, she wanted to create a podcast to encourage younger people, young people to get in touch with their creativity, to do art, to do music. That was her goal. It wasn't to make a lot of money do music she want, that was her goal. It wasn't wasn't to make a lot of money. It wasn't even to really promote her own performance art or her business. It was to inspire young people. Okay, so, when we were getting down to the nitty gritty of this is, you know, cause I I guide people through the whole process of creating the podcast, which would be on this because it's a visual, through the whole process of creating the podcast which would be on this because it's a visual.

It would be the video version too, so on YouTube and things like that. And so when it got to that point of we created the idea of the show, the format, all those things, and then when it came time to get her on camera, she just froze and she hated being on camera, just did not like it at all and um was very uh would say a lot about herself, like, did not like her, did not like her appearance and she's a performer, so she's a performer yeah exactly, and so we worked on a bit of that imposter syndrome stuff and again, that same thing that I talked to you earlier about.

I said we need to right now, focus on those kids that you want to inspire. I said because there's kids out there waiting that are going to. They're waiting for you, they're waiting for this really cool, hip, avant-garde, very brave and courageous woman who it went from you know being in china to germany, a performer who is saying it's okay to go out on a limb and to express yourselves. And I said they're waiting for you and if you don't show up, they're not getting that message. So we worked on it, we worked on it, we worked on it and and eventually she was. She was a tough one.

Yeah, it was a tough one, yeah, yeah, but she did it. She did it.

But she did it. She did it and it was like, oh OK, it was kind of like, oh, I hate this, but I'll do it.

I'm like you're a performance artist and I think that that shows you that it can happen to anybody and anybody can have those feelings. But I love your approach of focusing on who you can help, because that's what we all want to do is we want to help the audience whoever that audience is for us right and give them the, the tools, the tools that should be our, then, and that should be our motive.

Um, always, if you want to be a great coach, you want to be a great coach, you want to be a great teacher. Um, you don't get into teaching or coaching for the money that's for sure, that's the goal? Yeah, because I went to college. I went to university, I studied for years to become a teacher and then I got out of school and I was like you pay teachers, how much you know? You send us where. What are we?

for two years we're supposed to basically work for free, yeah you know so, uh, so I yeah, I wasn't going to become a public school teacher, but but you that, that passion for wanting to help people and to have those light bulb moments in people's that you know you can see it in their eyes um, it's just a great feeling. But in order to do that, that needs to be your motive and your goal if you want to help people.

Well, and I think too, everyone thinks I need to have a great big audience to be successful, but that's not necessarily the case, right?

no, you don't need a great big audience, you need the right audience talk about that a little bit. What is the?

right audience, depending on the right audience.

You know the thing is is you know the thing is is like I'm, I'm, I'm pretty busy with my clients. My, my roster is pretty, you know, chock full of amazing women that I work with. So if I had a massive audience, I wouldn't be able to probably even process and deal with as many people like that, but the quality of the people that I'm working with is really wonderful and unique. I look forward to my sessions with my clients and my masterminds and my webinars and workshops. I look forward to them because I really dig the clients, the people that I'm working with, right. So if I just had a lot of people and maybe I didn't like all of those people, I wouldn't want to spend that much time with them. Sure, great. Also, we need to go to where our audience is.

So this is another thing I'll tell people I say I know, you know you have in your mind where you want to be on social media and spending time on and things like that. Maybe that's your favorite place, but think about your potential clients and customers. Where are they spending time at? Are they mostly on Facebook? Are they mostly in LinkedIn? Are a lot of them on TikTok? You need to focus that Now. Does that mean you only post content to that platform? No, you're going to use all of the platforms. Post it on YouTube, post it on LinkedIn, post it on Facebook. But focus your attention and do as much as you can in that arena, where you know that's where your client base is, and speak their language and also address their issues For the longest time.

You know, a couple of years ago I was because my bread and butter many years ago was just podcast, you know, helping people create a podcast, and so that was my bread and butter. I was busy and then I noticed a shift and I kept trying to say this is what I do, let me help you with that podcast. And what I found is that my clients, the people that I was working with, they weren't wanting a podcast, they wanted help in their messaging and their communication and their social media. So I needed to adjust and I needed to focus on those things. So, as a coach, and you're like wondering, you know you're thinking how do I get more, more clients? Think about what your client base, what they actually, and not what you want to give them.

This is big.

This is really, really important Address those issues that your people want and need, and not just what you want to give or what you want to teach.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Well, I always ask people what their natural talents and strengths are. I'm a Gallup strengths coach and I always like to hear about your, what you think you're. If you've had the assessment or not, it doesn't matter. But what? What do you think your natural strengths are?

Oh, I would say, uh, I would say that often. I would say that I'm extremely authentic. I know I have not done the test thing that you're talking about so. I don't know what that would be, but I have a leadership quality, that life and all different socioeconomic aspects of life, and I think that is probably one of my greatest strengths is that I can have compassion.

I have compassion for people and there's not a, there's not a huge judgmental element in me, right, of course, if it's something obvious, if something's really you know going crazy, yeah, whatever yeah, okay, then that's not good yeah, but, but, um, but I am, I'm very compassionate about the human condition and what people uh go through, so I think that's probably one of my, my, my best qualities no, I love that, aware of that, I love that and I love having that in a strength or coach or a guide or someone that can help us get from point A to point B. I love that. I love that.

I think we need more of it in the world.

I think we need a lot more of it. I'm just, I'm just, was so glad that we connected and any last words for the audience and the listeners.

I will say this. I will say this, I will say this is on the bottom of every page on my website and it's a gentle reminder. It just says this. It says remember, if you're not seen and heard, you're not hired.

That's pretty much. Says it all right there.

It says it all right there.

I love that. Christine, thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you, dr Judy, you're wonderful.

I've had a great time. Same here. We'll do it again. Beautiful, what great tips, great strategies and if you, like me, have experienced imposter syndrome, some good ideas here I think that we can take from Christine's interview. Well, remember if you've got a story to share or know someone who does reach out to me at judyoskam. com. Thanks for listening.