How a Personal Struggle Led Kelly Engram to a New Purpose

Welcome And Why Stories Matter

Judy Oskam 0:03

I'm Judy Oskam, and welcome to Stories of Change and Creativity. I've always been fascinated by people's stories. This podcast explores the experiences that shape us and the lessons we learn along the way. I think everyone has a story, and every journey includes challenges, opportunities, and turning points. And each experience has something to teach us.

Kelly Engram 0:32

The world doesn't see my heart and your mind. The world doesn't see my mind. The world doesn't see my sense of humor. You know, um how I feel about anything.

Judy Oskam 0:46

That's Kelly Engram, educator and Texas State University graduate. She's also the founder of Prairie Fire Hair. I this episode, Kelly shares the experiences that shape her journey from becoming a young single mother and then returning to college years later. She's navigated hair loss, self-image, and the search for confidence and purpose. What began as a personal struggle eventually led Kelly to discover her unexpected passion. Now she helps women see themselves differently and embrace who they are. Together, we explore identity, self-acceptance, and the lessons that emerge when we give ourselves permission to grow. Here's my conversation with Kelly Ingram.

Kelly Engram 1:38

I actually started my college career at Palo Alto Community College back in, you know, the 90s, and I was a single mom and I was very young. I had my son when I was barely 18 years old. And um I transferred to uh Southwest Texas State University and um continued my degree here, and then I was just burnt out. I was so I was in school for so long, and I was working full-time and I was a, like I said, single mom. And so um my employer at the time offered me a full-time position in management, and I said, you know what, I'm gonna do that, and then I'll come back and finish school. Well, my career just kind of took off, and um, I didn't actually have the opportunity to come back to school until the, you know, the 2000s. Um, and so I said, you know, let's do this. And I was in the um digital media field for, you know, 25 years. And um, and so I found the digital media innovation program at the School of Journalism and Mass Communication, and I was like, wow, this is it. This is gonna make my career take off because at the time I was more of a you know, newspaper, radio, TV kind of a person, and digital was taking over. Just new, yeah, sure. I was lost, you know. I was like, I'm struggling. Um, and I specialized in retail automotive uh advertising. And so newspapers was my bread and butter, but the newspapers took a dive. So um, so when I found the digital media innovation program, I was like, wow, I can learn how to code. I can learn all of these digital things. And so I got into the program and immediately was like applying everything I learned immediately to my my job. And um at some point I was asked if I could be an assistant. I was actually an undergraduate assistant. And I thought, well, that would be fun. And so I did, and I just thought this is the best thing ever. Like teaching is you get to help people incredible. Because for all of these years, I have been making money for other people, yeah, not really doing anything for the world, making me feel good about what I was doing. So I was like, this is the thing. Yeah. And so I continued on, got my master's degree, and but then my my consulting work was doing great. And then um, but I just all of a sudden I was just like, no, this is I need a passion. And so, um because for all of my life, I've been one of those kinds of people who's like, who's never really had a passion, yeah, but you've been a hard worker and you've excelled at everything you do.

Judy Oskam 4:48

You I will tell the audience, you have been one of our best graduate instructional assistants. You work well with the students, you bring that real world expertise, and students just uh connect with you in a way that it just doesn't happen all the time. And so we've were we were really happy to hire you as much as we could. You're gonna make me cry. Yeah, well, it's true, it's true. And I think I've seen that your expertise connected and colliding with students and helping them find their passion in a way. So you say you've never had a passion.

Kelly Engram 5:26

Yeah, and I've always and so I always said, you know what my passion is? My passion is doing well. Yeah. And whatever it is that I'm doing, I just want to do it well. Yes. That's my passion. And that's because I never really had a passion.

Judy Oskam 5:39

Well, you probably didn't have time because you were busy raising a child, you were busy working, putting food on the table. It's not easy to even go back to school. So I give you kudos on that. Well, it's amazing. Thank you.

Kelly Engram 5:53

So I um I got don't cry, I didn't bring tissues. It's okay. I I got out of the I I graduated and um was asked to uh to teach. And so I, of course, I was like, yeah, this is what I want to do. This is my thing. And so um I did that. And

Hair Loss And A First Wig Fail

Kelly Engram 6:14

while that I was doing that, as I I have hair loss. Um, and I've been sporadically having hair loss since I was 40 years old. I'm gonna be 57 this this summer. And um, and it's genetic, you know, androgenic alopecia. And so it would, I would go through like shedding phases and um, and I tried wearing wigs like 15 years ago, and I just couldn't do it. I just could not get into it. I went to a local wig shop in Austin, and they put me in something that was just not me at all. And so I just figured, well, this is what it is, this is what it's like. This is not it, this is not me. I can't do this. And so I just so I started wearing my hair in this little bitty short pixie and thinking like super bleach blonde short pixie. It's really cute, by the way. I had no idea. So and because, like, you know, it's short and and blonde, so I figured, well, the blonde matches my scalp, so you can't see it. Yeah, right. And um, and then one time um a few years back, I saw a picture of myself with the sun behind me, and you could literally see the outline of my skull through my hair. It was that thin. And I was just like, I can't do this. And also, um, I had over the years, I have lost over a hundred pounds three times. And so with that comes a lot of hair loss. Sure, sure. And I have found that that is a very common thing with um ladies who have turned to wig wearing. And so anyway, I started experimenting with wearing a wig again, and I started like just scouring YouTube because I found like there's this whole online community of wig wearers and um Facebook groups, YouTube videos, influencers, and I just became obsessed with watching all of that. And um, and so I started learning some things and some do's and some don'ts, and what I did that wasn't right, that that didn't work for me in the beginning was that putting me in me going from like a short blonde pixie to uh a 28-inch long dark brunette was not the thing. So I learned from this online community that that was not the right thing to do. You need to wear something that is as close to your own hair as you possibly can because your brain is not used to seeing you that way. It is a is it is a perspective that you don't see yourself that way and it looks strange. It looks strange not only to you, but uh to your loved ones. It's kind of akin to a man who has been wearing a beard for a long time, and then one day he decides to shave it off, and then you're like, whoa, like you look like a completely different person. That's how it feels. And when it's sudden like that. So, of course, you know, when you lose weight, when you change your look in some way, a lot of times that happens over time. It's gradually, maybe, yeah. And it's just not that noticeable. But when you're just suddenly, bam, you're wearing uh your hair looks completely different. You think it it everybody knows you're wearing a wig. And it feels weird. It it there's a level of physical and emotional discomfort that is palpable. I mean, it is it's hard. And I found it very, very hard for me, and so many people within the wig community get that same thing. And there, if there's one thing that I try to get across, is that you need to give yourself grace to be uncomfortable. You need to give yourself a a chance. Don't be so hard on yourself because that's what it is. You're being so hard on yourself. I have this one client who um she has bought about 10 wigs, very, very expensive wigs, and she won't wear them outside of her house because she's like, Well, what happens if I'm in a restaurant and the waiter is like looking down and he can see the top of it and no amount of me saying he's not seeing your wig. He's not seeing that, yeah, nobody's paying attention. People are so caught up in their own thing that nobody is realizing that you are wearing a wig. But you will not allow yourself the grace to just get over it, to to just kind of live with it, because once you can get over the hump of wearing a wig, the whole world opens up.

Judy Oskam 11:21

So,

Giving Yourself Grace Through Discomfort

Judy Oskam 11:22

what does that do for identity? I mean, how does that kind of dive into that? Because you've kind of done all the research on solving a problem or an opportunity. You learned all that in school, and then how do you then target your audience? But you were solving some things for your own life as well.

Kelly Engram 11:42

It I don't know that I could have done this without experiencing it myself. Um so when I first started wearing wearing a wig regularly, in fact, one of the first times that I went out in public was uh at a faculty meeting. And I had a little short blonde pixie wig on that looked pretty much just like my hair. And I went into that meeting so paranoid that like everybody's like turning around and looking at me and and uh and no, they know that I'm wearing a wig and I'm sitting there and I can feel it creeping back. Like I can actually literally feel it moving on my head. So I got up and went to the bathroom, totally fine. It's not moving, it's exactly where I put it. Went and sit down. I could feel it moving again. I don't know how many times I got up in that meeting because I was so paranoid about it. And and then I was just like, I just can't do this. I can't do it. And I thought, you know, so the first time I lost a bunch of weight, I remember that, you know, because they say that there it takes a certain amount of time to form a habit. And so I thought, I can't remember how long it is, like six weeks, eight weeks, something like that. And I I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna power through this. I'm gonna power through it until I form a habit. So that means in the morning, when I wake up, I'm immediately gonna put this wig on my head and I am not taking it off until I go to bed at night. And you're gonna do it like you're a machine. You're not gonna think about it. Yeah, you're just gonna do it. And so I did. And I was so uncomfortable. Um, I would go to the grocery store and I would think, you know, that three-year-old little boy in the grocery cart over there is looking at me because he knows I'm wearing a wig. Wow. Wow. And, you know, you just it feels awful. Yeah. And so that's a mindset. It is a mindset. Yeah. It is completely in your mind because you look great. And at one point, I remember it was three weeks in, and I went to the grocery store and I was getting something out of the freezer section. I shut the door and I saw the reflection of myself in the door, and I was like, I'm wearing a wig. So you hadn't thought about it for a little bit? I hadn't, I was not thinking about it. It struck me, like, oh my gosh, I am wearing a wig. And look at me, I look really cute. From that moment, everything changed. The way I felt about myself, the way I felt like I presented to the world, because when you have, well, you know, when you're when you're overweight, significantly overweight, when you have hair loss, it's like those are the things that are those are the things that the world sees. The world doesn't see my heart in your mind, the world doesn't see my mind, the world doesn't see my sense of humor, you know, um how I feel about anything. It just sees that, you know, I'm a fat girl with no hair. And when you can not have those things as your obstacle, now of course you're projecting, you're projecting your feelings from people. And when you don't have those obstacles, you know, when it's it's something that you don't have to think about anymore. And in fact, you can walk into a room and you're like feeling good about yourself and just be, and just be, then all of a sudden they can see your heart and they can see your your mind because you're allowing it. You are allowing the world to see the real you. Now, is this the same for everyone? Of course not, you know. Um, for me, I mean, and frankly, my hair was actually more of an obstacle to me than my weight was. You know, um, I was significantly overweight. You know, at one point I was 140 pounds overweight. And but for whatever reason, it that wasn't my the thing that messed with my confidence. It was my hair. And once I got over that, and once I realized so so that's kind of the hump that you get over. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, but now I can wear all these colors and I can wear, I can be have long hair and short hair and curly hair, and sh like I could do, I can wear my hair like my wardrobe. Yes, yes. Then that's kind of when the glow up happens, you know, where all of a sudden, and who knows, maybe this has something to do with age too, or you just don't care.

Judy Oskam 17:06

Well, but I think what you're what you found a way to do is create your own glow-up. And then you're you're helping others do the same. Yes. Talk about how you kind of got into that and you're life-changing.

Turning Obsession Into Prairie Fire Hair

Kelly Engram 17:22

Well, because I am, I have an obsessive personality, and I was all about the wigs. Like I was, I mean, uh, and there's just like the whole online community of buying and selling wigs, you know, because you know, you buy something that's quite expensive and maybe it's not quite for you, and so you can sell it pre-owned to somebody else. And so this is there's a huge community. So I really got into buying and selling. I mean, at one point, I think I had about 200 wigs that I was wearing and buying and selling and trading, doing all the things. Yeah. And which got me more into like the whole history of wigs and the construction of them and all of the the nuances of of the industry itself, and which is completely unregulated. And so the the only way that you as a wig buyer can you have to find a trusted source. Sure. Because it's the Wild West, frankly. Yeah. And so um, but anyway, I could just got really into all of that. And then I end up, I found a a woman who in uh in Atlanta, Georgia, who is a wig maker for film and theater, and she does periodic workshops for people who are just wanting to learn how to repair and do all these things. And so I went to this workshop and met some wonderful people, and we learned how to ventilate, which is like actually hand knotting each hair onto lace to create the wig and repairing and doing all these things. And from that, and from that, and there were people within the industry who were taking that workshop. And so I was able to network with them and kind of understand more information. And then next thing you know, I am uh I'm I'm in the business.

Speaker 2 19:17

Yeah.

Kelly Engram 19:18

Yes, I'm buying wigs, I'm constructing wigs, I am uh lots of RD, lots and lots of failures, lots and lots of money down the drain. Um, but all the while just learning and learning. And um, and so I just decided to start and I had to really fight hard. Uh, you know, having that whole like imposter syndrome, you know, like I'm playing dolls. Yes, you know, like this is a real thing. Yes. And um it and I it was basically born from the fact that like I am so obsessed with this, I need to do something constructive. So that is your passion then. This is my passion. Yeah, teaching is my passion too. So like I have gone my whole life with being basically passionless. Well, and then and then like now, all of a sudden I have these two things that I absolutely adore. And both of those things have something to do with helping people achieve something for themselves. Yes. And um, whether it is a student or a woman who's experiencing hair loss, um, you know, it's it's kind of that level of just unadulterated compassion, um, no judgment whatsoever. Wherever you are in life, no judgment. And um, and just kind of helping you get over that hump. Because that happens a lot with students too, right? You know, they hit a wall at some point in the semester, and you can kind of see that happening, and you can reach out to them and and and see what's going on, and then how amazing is it when you know they they pull through and do great, and kind of the same thing for um when you help someone, you know, get their hair. Yes. Um, I have had communications, I mean, frankly, and this blew me away because while I had extreme grief and sorrow over my hair loss, I was never to the point where I felt like I needed to end it all. Right. I have had messages from women and I have had uh consultations, in person consultations, where they've literally told me if if I wasn't able to solve this that I don't want to go on. Oh my gosh. Is that important? Yes.

Judy Oskam 22:00

It's identity, it's your it's your place in the world and it's your own view of where you live in the world. Yes. Right? Yes.

Kelly Engram 22:08

I especially really difficult for for people who have had hair, who actually, you know, felt like their hair was their their crowning glory, you know. Like, you know, and then later in life, you know, you start losing your hair or it gets thinner, or you have an illness, or whatever the case may be, and you lose it. You literally have lost some part of your identity that you prized, that you you you cherished. And it it's still it's still kind of a mystery to me about why it's so important. Well, like I really want to know the nitty-gritty of like why is it so important?

Judy Oskam 22:59

Well, then that's a research study that you could do, and you could do that. That's a whole other podcast, maybe, but talk about your name, the name of the business, and why that name?

Kelly Engram 23:11

Well, I wanted something that evokes a lot of emotion, a lot of passion, and a lot of love for myself because um I, you know, we're in the Texas Hill country and I absolutely love it here. And um, this has been my home for most of my life. And so I was like, okay, from a branding standpoint, like what, like how can how can we how can I make this, you know, um make sense? And so I came up with prairie fire hair because um we have uh wildflowers. I mean, it's our area is known for for wildflowers. And one of those wildflowers is the Indian paintbrush. And um the um natives called it um the prairie fire because it's a red wildflower, and if you see it in a prairie, you'll know it, yeah, it's on fire with all these red blooms. And I just felt like, you know, boy, that is just it to me, it just has such a visual um presence. And and you know, I'm wearing a very long red wig right now. And to me, like this is kind of like my, you know, what what hair would you want if you had if you could have any hair you want, what would it be? Well, I'm wearing it. And um it's and so like it's that's kind of what it was for me personally, and um, and also all of my wigs have names, which is very common for human hair. Um, like the colors are named. And so uh I choose all of my names are based on German and Spanish um names because our area was basically founded by um German and Spanish. And so, you know, I've got lots of I got I got a Greta um and I have uh Teresa and just you know a lot of those names. And I try my best to keep within that um kind of that that idea of um just making sure that the brand is cohesive in that way. And cultural and yes, with heritage to get me. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I actually have a collection, um, and it's called the Wildflower Collection, and it is my more affordable uh line. And then I have another collection, which is a more premium, which is called the Heritage Collection. So um, yeah, and then I also do kind of coming back to that buying and selling, um, I wanted to have a collection of consignment wigs. Yeah. So women can send me their wigs. Um, and uh I fix them up, I restore them, I do whatever I need to do to them in order for them to be sold at for a consignment fee. And um I really don't make a whole lot of money on that, frankly. But uh it does allow for these women to be able to sell hair that they would have otherwise had in their their closets. Sure.

Judy Oskam 26:46

And recycle in a way.

Kelly Engram 26:48

And if frankly, I've I mean, there are ladies with thousands of dollars worth of wigs in their closets just sitting there untouched. And so this is a way that they can, you know, kind of, you know, and and they I get they thank me all the time for offering that service.

Judy Oskam 27:07

Yes, yes.

Kelly Engram 27:08

So that's kind of all part of it too. And um, consultations, I do free consultations, whether it's virtual or in person. I am more than happy to talk your ear off at any moment about wigs. I mean, I don't know how many times where, you know, like an in-person consultation is an hour and a half long. Yeah. And we're hitting the hour and a half mark. And I'll have the client be like, Well, I guess we need to, you we probably need to wrap it up now. I'm like, no, we can keep, we're good. So for you, it's about connection too. Oh, it's one half about connection because without that, then uh it's just a business. Yeah. You know, this is more. This is so much more than a business. It's it is it's spiritual for me. And um the the amount of the amount of people who I have been able to help and who have been um so kind with and generous with, you know, telling me, you know, how it helped them.

Judy Oskam 28:22

Give us

When Confidence Becomes A Lifeline

Judy Oskam 28:23

an example of that. Someone that that reached out to you, you helped them. What is it allowed them to change or do in their life?

Kelly Engram 28:33

Well, I think what it does is it allows them to have a life in many instances. Um, I have this woman in California, and she is in her late 60s, and she um her husband died many years ago, and she's having some health issues that caused her hair to fall out. She has been inside of her house. She has not left her house in months. She will only leave the house to go to the doctor, and when she does, she puts a scarf on her head, she puts a hat on top of the scarf, and that's how she leaves the house. Well, she found me, and I'm not even sure how she found me, but she found me and she sent me an email, and um, I I messaged her back and she was just like, Well, can we just talk on the phone? I'm not good at with this email stuff. I'm like, Well, okay, sure. So she she left her phone number. So I called her and she answered the phone and I said, Hi, this is Kelly from Prairie Fire Hair. And she she seen all of my social media. So she kind of was acting a little bit like I was a celebrity. You kind of are, you kind of are, and she started crying and was just like, I can't believe you called me. It was hope. He gave her hope. She's like, I cannot believe you called me. Yeah, like, well, yeah, why not? And and we had a long conversation about wigs. And um, and so she's like, you know, she really wanted a particular kind of wig that I didn't have in stock. And so I was like, well, it's gonna take me about a month to get what you want. And she was just like, okay, so I have to wait another month before I can go anywhere.

Speaker 2 30:21

Get out of my house.

Kelly Engram 30:22

Yeah. And so I so I actually sent her two wigs for free. Um, they were actually my wigs that um that I wasn't really wearing anymore. And so I was just like, and they were pretty much like what she was wanting herself. And so I was like, I'll just send them to you. And she's she she's like, okay. So she gave me her address. Uh, she also purchased a wig um on the phone. And uh I sent the wigs to her, and she, as soon as she got them, uh she called me just sobbing. And she was like, they're beautiful, and I can't wait to wear them out of my house. And in fact, I'm gonna go, um, I'm gonna go to dinner with a friend. I haven't seen her in two years, and we're gonna go to dinner, and um, I can't believe I'm doing this. Yeah, wow. And um, so she did, and then so she calls me all the time now. She's your buddy. She is.

Judy Oskam 31:27

Well, I love that. Well, and and your background, you have been an entrepreneur for a long time.

Speaker 31:32

Yeah.

Judy Oskam 31:33

You have you you know the ups and downs of being an entrepreneur. How is this different? How is prairie fire hair different from your other ventures?

Kelly Engram 31:45

Well, I think my other ventures were um that I needed a job and I just kind of fell into it. It wasn't anything that I pursued. And you didn't create it. I didn't create it. There you go.

Judy Oskam 31:59

Yeah.

Kelly Engram 31:59

I did not. Um, and I was, like I said, I was a um a digital, or really back in the day, I was just plain all media uh consultant uh for these retail automotive dealerships. And um, and so yeah, I was just making money, helping, you know, sell cars.

Judy Oskam 32:20

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 32:21

And I did it well.

Judy Oskam 32:22

Yeah.

Kelly Engram 32:23

And um, but it just was never a passion for me, except for that it I had a job. Yeah. And to be able to actually do something for a living that is something that I think about all the time, that I want to do all the time. Um, I I am literally like curling hair at midnight. Yes. Not because I have to, but because like I actually yearn for it.

Judy Oskam 32:54

Well, and you you just opened uh a brick and mortar store. I did. Actually, today is the first day. Oh my God, I can't believe you made time for us. Oh my god.

Kelly Engram 33:03

We we yeah, this past weekend was crazy getting all moved in. And um, and I didn't want to, and that's the funny thing too, because like I didn't want to shut down. I wanted to just have like a go from my at-home business to my my my commercial retail space without any break. And that was hard. Yeah. And um, and it was funny because like I constantly have to tell myself, you're the boss. You decide what you're gonna do. You don't want to work today, don't work today. It's fine. But I cannot because you allow myself to do that.

Judy Oskam 33:41

Well, I have another friend like that too. So she's

Entrepreneur Advice: Be A Machine

Judy Oskam 33:44

probably listening. But well, what would you tell, you know, what would you tell people that really have a itch to scratch or they really have something they want to do and they want to jump into the entrepreneur world? What would you advise them to do?

Kelly Engram 34:00

Be a machine. Do what I did when I first started, when I first lost weight, when I first started wearing wigs. Make your plan, have it all written out and ready to go. And don't do it. Or sorry, do it, but don't question yourself. Just get up and do it every day. Just get up and do it. And frankly, that is something that I got off of you.

unknown 34:29

Oh no.

Kelly Engram 34:31

Because you you did that TED talk, yes, where it was just like basically just do it. Yes, take action and figure it out. Right. Yes. Don't just just stop with the planning.

unknown 34:44

Yeah.

Kelly Engram 34:45

Right. You know you've got the plan all worked out, and then at that point, it's time to execute. Yeah. And it's okay if there are certain par bits and pieces of it that you don't have quite figured out, and don't get bogged down with all of that. Just do it and don't give up until there, I mean, I'm not saying like, you know, start something that's, you know, going to end up being a big flop. I mean, of course, there's a lot to learn with that, but um it's it's just a matter of jumping into it, seeing it through. And if it works out, awesome. And if it doesn't, that's okay too. You've learned something. There's and it it's interesting too, because like I have, you know, sometimes um when you are running a business, especially one with inventory, um, things aren't gonna work out quite like you had planned, and you're going to go through a lot of um research and development, and uh some things are gonna be flops and you're going to lose a lot of money. Well, every time I've lost money, it's because maybe it was didn't work out quite the way I wanted it to work out, but at the same time, I'm okay with it because I certainly learned a lesson from it. Yeah.

Judy Oskam 36:18

Yeah.

Kelly Engram 36:18

And so that whole thing of, you know, learning from failures is huge. But be prepared to learn from them. Don't just let it happen and, you know, do it all over again. You've got to learn that lesson.

Judy Oskam 36:34

Yeah. Yeah. And could you ever imagine not doing this now? Could you ever imagine if you hadn't gone this direction? I don't know what I would do. Well, we would keep you full-time teaching, is what we would call it.

Kelly Engram 36:48

Okay, yes, that's what I would do. That's what I would do. Absolutely. Um, I don't know. It is such a massive part of my life. And frankly, I should probably stop talking about it so much because my friends and family are probably sick to death of hearing me talk about wigs. My husband, he's he says uh he's probably knows more about wigs than any um husband or spouse. Any spouse needs to know about wigs. And so um it's I I just I can't even begin to imagine of like getting tired of it, like being 10 years down the line or something, and just being like, ugh, gotta go to work. You know, I I feel like I'm going to be pinching myself for the rest of my life. Yeah.

Building Community With Workshops And Support

Judy Oskam 37:41

Well, look ahead five years. You're still gonna be doing this, you'll be doing more. What are what's your vision for five years from now? Other retail stores, other products? What?

Kelly Engram 37:51

Yeah, I'm gonna be a wig mogul.

unknown 37:53

Okay. Wig mogul.

Judy Oskam 37:54

Let's go. Whatever that is. You can sponsor the podcast then.

Kelly Engram 37:58

Oh gosh. You know, I just I don't know that I really want to get to the point where I would have like, you know, multiple locations or anything like that. Um, I would just love to have just a single location with tons of experts. Yeah. Ready to help everybody. Um, because it's virtually or in person. Virtually or in person. I love that. Um, you know, in person is kind of my favorite. I know, sure. And you gotta physically put the wig on. I get it.

Judy Oskam 38:33

Yeah, yeah. And just having that connection.

Kelly Engram 38:36

But um, you know, and I do have uh a woman who she's from Portland and she's figuring out her timetable to come and see me. Great. So it's great.

Judy Oskam 38:49

Well, you'll have people fly in from all over. I guarantee you you will.

Kelly Engram 38:52

That is yeah, that is what I want. Um, and a part of my part of the um physical location that I re one of the main reasons why I wanted to do this is so that I can have workshops. Yes. So that I can have support groups and retreats.

Judy Oskam 39:11

I see retreats and and exotic places that you could bring your stuff with. I might go to that.

Kelly Engram 39:17

Yeah, you know, because um it so many wig wearers are all alone. Yeah, they don't have anybody because one, it's something that you're supposed to hide. Nobody's know about it. It's not about the wig, is it? And then their family isn't all that a lot of times, family is just not very supportive because they're like, but it doesn't look like you, you know. That's that doesn't look like you. I had that myself with my husband, you know. He just I would say, How do you like this wig? And he'd be like, Oh, yeah, it's okay. I'm like, Well, well, what does does it look like a wig? Like, what is it? And he's like, I just uh it it does, it looks kind of wiggy. Well, tell me specifically, why does it look like a wig? Is it too much hair? No. Is it can you see something weird? No, like, please, you have to tell me. And he finally just said, it just doesn't look like you. I'm like, yeah, but that doesn't make it look like a wig. That's right. That's a different thing. And so he had to kind of shift his perspective as well. And now he's just like, whatever, you know. Yeah, you look great every time. You look great, whatever. So, yes, luckily I have a wonderful husband like that. But um, and I tell because you hear that a lot, because like, oh, my daughter says it looks like a wig. You know, you don't want to say, like, you know, well, your daughter doesn't know what she's talking about. You don't want to say that, obviously. But you want to, I just try to encourage them to do the same that I did with my husband. That's a great point, you know. Ask them specifically, yeah, why? Just tell me. You need to help me, you know.

Judy Oskam 40:57

Or does it look different on me? Does it make me look too different for you? Maybe there's a better way to ask that.

Kelly Engram 41:03

And is that a problem? Why is that a problem? You know? And so we're because we're just not we like the familiar. Yeah. It was easy, you know. We want the familiar. Sure. And when things are a little bit different, it's it's just weird. And um, and and we feel it ourselves. We project all of those feelings onto other people. So the woman who's like, you know, the waiter is looking down on my head and says, sees that I'm wearing a wig. Well, you are projecting that feeling onto that person. The waiter forgot you feel your glass. Yeah, the waiter's not even there. You know, I mean, somebody looks at you a little bit weird. Here's the funny thing is that now you've you probably have some really pretty hair. What if that person is looking at you going, man, I like that her hair.

Judy Oskam 41:52

Yes, yes.

Kelly Engram 41:53

But instead you're thinking, oh, they're looking at me because they know I'm wearing a wig, or that I look, or that I'm an imposter, or that I'm trying to be something more than I'm not.

Judy Oskam 42:04

So how do you how do you get into that? That is a mind shift. That's a lot of psychology there. There's tons. That's a lot of self-image, um, body image. Gosh, there's so much there.

Kelly Engram 42:18

There's probably more than we can possibly even discuss right now. But yeah, um, it's it it is something that I try to delve in a lot because I've, you know, like I said, I've had my own glow up.

Judy Oskam 42:37

And you can talk authentically about it.

Kelly Engram 42:41

I yeah. And I feel it. I but most of the thing that I have noticed the most though is how I really don't care what anybody else thinks of me anymore. I really don't.

Judy Oskam 42:56

Well, because isn't that because you have allowed yourself to just be who you are? Because I love myself. Yes, I love myself. Yes, I love you too, Kelly. You're wonderful.

Kelly Engram 43:09

But you know what I mean? Like I I can unabashedly say that every single person on this planet needs to say that they love themselves, but they don't. I know, right? And and I'm not saying that the wigs like make makeup. It's not about the wig. I'm saying it's not it is not, it's about something that it revealed about you because it opened up some kind of synapses in your brain to see yourself as something different than what you've always seen. Right. It allows you to explore other dimensions of yourself that you never even knew was there. Yeah. I love that.

Judy Oskam 43:58

Kelly, I can't wait to go by the store. I want you to be great. I want you great.

Kelly Engram 44:03

I'm gonna have the grand opening, and so hopefully it's gonna be a big party. So that's definitely be invited.

Final Words On Self Love

Judy Oskam 44:09

Well, any last words to people listening who might have struggled with I don't know, self-image, not just hair, but any last words you want to leave them with.

Kelly Engram 44:21

I would say talk to somebody. Just talk to somebody, you know? And and I mean, I said this before, but allow yourself the discomfort of exploring uh those other parts of yourself. It's hard though. It's hard, it's one of the hardest things. It's hard. Yeah. I I tell women all the time, like, if you just give yourself a chance, yeah, just give yourself a chance. And you would be, you'll be so, so happy. And I'm not just talking about from my personal experience. I there are thousands of women who have experienced the same thing.

Judy Oskam 44:59

Sure.

Kelly Engram 45:00

And it's not necessarily just about wigs, it's just it's about everything. Give yourself a break. Love yourself and be kind and you're not a perfect nobody is, but that that's completely okay. And nobody cares. You know, you don't need to be, you don't need to put project feelings onto other people because I guarantee you everybody else has their own thing that they're thinking about. Right. So yeah, it's it's just getting to the point where you can put everything aside and just wrap yourself up in a big hug. Because you deserve it. You deserve your own glow of. Absolutely, everybody does.

Judy Oskam 45:56

Thank you, Kelly. Thank you. This is fun. It's so fun. We could go on all day. Thank you. Thank you for listening to my conversation with Kelly Engram. Her story reminds us that sometimes the experiences that challenge us the most can help us discover confidence and purpose, and maybe a new direction in life. Well, I hope this conversation encourages you to reflect on your own journey and your experiences. I'm Judy Oskam. Thanks for listening to Stories of Change and Creativity because the experiences that shape us often become the stories we share.