Emma Cross: From Childhood Dreams to a Life in Design

How I connected with Emma Cross

Judy Oskam 0:44

I'm Judy Oskam, and welcome to Stories of Change & Creativity.I've always been fascinated by people's stories. This podcast explores the experiences that shape us and the lessons we learn along the way. One of the things I enjoy most as a professor is watching students discover the stories behind a business and people they encounter. While teaching Texas State students at Queen Margaret University in Scotland, two students in my public relations class selected The Store by Emma Cross for a brand project. They were drawn to the Emma’s vibrant colors and cozy shop near the train station.  I was curious to learn more about the person behind the brand, so I visited Emma’s shop in North Berwick.  I reached out to her for an interview and she said yes.  Emma Cross knew she wanted to be a designer when she was five years old. What led to her creative path is fascinating.  She learned to say yes when opportunities appeared.Here's my conversation with Emma Cross.

Emma Cross 1:25

Okay, so my name is Emma Cross, and I've been doing interior design since 2007. The shop that you've stumbled across, I've only had for coming up for three years this October. Prior to that, I was based in Gullen, so I have my interior design studio there. And prior to that, I had another shop in North Berwick. So this particular incarnation of my business happened by accident, basically, because the people who used to occupy the space approached me no sooner than I'd signed my lease in Gullen. Oh no. And said, Hey, would you be interested in moving and taking on our business? And so Carla and Stewart Henderson, after about 27 years here, handed their business over to me, and I took over in October. It would be 2023 by surprise. I had two weeks, I didn't think about it, I just went for it without any financial planning or thought about how I would manage the two places. So what was it that sparked you to say yes? Um, like everything I do, I'm really impulsive. My husband and I just thought, well, why not? It's a great location, uh, it's an established business, they're a lovely couple, it's a good opportunity. Um, I would rather it were us than somebody else. So that's a big driver for really wanting to make sure that we were managing it rather than inviting a competitor to take it. So really it was really spontaneous, no thought, no business plan, nothing lined up. We'll do it. And then we opened in the December. So we got the keys in the October, and then by December we had a soft opening, and then we've been we've been uh what's the word? Evolving evolving ever since, and every day is just me trying to bring it more in line with the brand and more in line with my business ethos. Because before, uh obviously it had its own identity and its own people have been there and their own stamp on it. So for me, I've had to work hard at changing it and flipping it slightly to represent us and what we do.

Making Interior Design More Accessible

Judy Oskam 3:39

Well, and talk about what you do. I mean, it's all about colour and creativity. Sure.

Emma Cross 3:43

So it's an interior design-based business that's now launched a retail platform, which is what this is. So we took it over to make a retail um vision of our brand. So before we just did interior design, which was quite a client-on-client, one-on-one business model, and then we've wanted to make it more accessible. So by opening the shop, we've brought design to a more accessible means so people could just pop in and buy things off the shelf, or they could meet with the girls who work here and make their own decisions without using an interior designer. So it basically is giving people colorful design accessible without going through an interior design route.

Judy Oskam 4:25

But when you walk in, it is all about the color. All about the color. It's about it's about color with the dresses and the fabrics and everything. Yeah. Have you always had that creative flair? Yeah. Where did that come from?

Emma Cross 4:37

No idea. I've all no idea. I do. My family are very creative. My mom does a lot of sewing and a lot of crafts. She worked with children, so she was always wanting to do colourful, playful, crafty things. Uh, I wanted to be an interior designer, probably from about the age of five. Yeah. So I didn't ever consider any other career other than doing design. And that would manifest itself in going around to people's houses and moving their houses around, changing their bedrooms. No, because I never used to finish it. I would go right to my friends, destroy the place, turn it upside down. And then I'd be like, bye, I have to go home now. And so many a time I had a friend's mom phoning me going, uh, Emma, are you gonna come back and finish this? Oh my gosh. So as a kid, yeah, it was you. Oh my gosh. Always changing my own room round. Whenever my mum would go, I'd change her room round. But the colour comes from the fact that I need colour around me. I don't like blank, cold spaces, I don't like to work with greys. And I find that I have to always have the bright see the colour. And for me, even in the clothes, even in the small accessories, it may look a bit chaotic, but to me I can't have anything that brings it down.

Learning To Use Color With Confidence

Judy Oskam 5:49

I love that. Well, and what is it about our space and our environment that why is that important to us?

Emma Cross 5:58

I think well, I mean, I can only speak about how I feel and how the clients feel that come to me, but people I think need colour around them, but they don't feel confident around colour. I think they feel frightened to do too much and how to use colour, and they're not always comfortable knowing what colours work together. So for me, the colour works because it's bright and cheerful and happy, and we can make spaces that you immediately walk into and they lift your mood. So I like to try and replicate that in a way that suits the client's individual space and how much colour they can take in the space. Does that make sense?

Judy Oskam 6:37

Yes, and I'm sitting here wearing black. You are, but you've got a little bit of yellow, you've got a little bit of colour on a scarf. You're on a yellow chair. I know, and I have I have a good friend, Wendy, and she is all about colour. So I say I live vicariously through her. Yeah. And now through you.

Emma Cross 6:54

Through me. And also I feel like people often just wear the black because they they they just feel more comfortable. It's just like a disguise, they put it on, it's it's like a uniform, yes. Whereas I ha I would hate a uniform every day. It's a different colour day, but I'll tell you something interesting about clothes. Often when I go around to a client's house, the first thing I'll look at is what they're wearing. Yes. Because it's the first indicator of their flair and really what they're comfortable in.

Judy Oskam 7:21

Yes.

Emma Cross 7:22

And more often than not, it's navy. Yeah. And it's such an easy, comfortable colour, but I'll always pay attention because it's often the thing that they'll want in their house as well.

Judy Oskam 7:32

So that's a clue for you to know how how bold they are or how what does colours do certain colours mean certain things to you?

Emma Cross 7:41

Maybe more conservative. So perhaps people who wear a lot of blues and darks tend to be more conservative, and you know, they're maybe dressed for that for a reason because of their work or just the environment that they they're in. But um, yeah, I'll know fine well if I walk into somebody's house who's dressed like me, then we're gonna have like a massive colour blast. But to be honest, very rarely, most people who know what they want in clothes tend to know what they want in their house, if that makes sense. I don't, you know, um people reach out to inter designers because they want to tap in a wee bit to your colour.

Judy Oskam 8:14

Oh, yes, exactly.

Emma Cross 8:15

Not as much as I do. I have to tell I have to tone myself down a lot, but that's that's

Creativity As A Lifestyle

Emma Cross 8:20

okay.

Judy Oskam 8:20

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so so creativity. What do you do to really engage your your creativity? Uh or does this uh does every day coming to work not like work for you?

Emma Cross 8:31

Yeah, so I do the job I love and I and I every day is different, and every day has different creative challenges. And because I spend most of my working life, my waking life working, I don't do much outside of work. Yeah. Because I'm either working here, I'm working at home, you know, I've got a busy family life, I've got three children, a husband who runs his own business and a dog, and so I find that when I go home I'm only just sort of looking after food or whatever, tidying and then working again. Yeah.

Judy Oskam 9:00

So really And is that okay for your lifestyle? Does that work for you?

Emma Cross 9:04

It's what I do. It's what I do, you know. It's who you are. Yeah, it is. It's just very driven, and I think um not always driven productively. I don't mean it's a good thing to work like that. I just think you don't switch off, do you?

Judy Oskam 9:16

So yeah.

Emma Cross 9:17

Um that's what it's like. And my house is always changing to answer your question about creating space and it never stays static for long. And that's just how you roll, right? Yeah, that's just it. Yeah. I think it drives your husband departmental.

Judy Oskam 9:32

Yeah.

Emma Cross 9:32

So that's the way we roll. And um my second daughter, she's about to go to university, so I'll be busy remodeling her room as soon as she goes. Yes. And my son next year, and then oh my god, everybody out. And then you know, and then you'll redo the house.

Judy Oskam 9:48

Then I'll redo the whole house again. Yes, yes. Yeah. Well, and was there a moment, and maybe it was when you were a kid, when you realized that creativity and design could be a career.

Emma Cross 9:59

Um, I guess, I don't suppose I ever thought it wouldn't be. So I don't know about you, but I was a massive fan of Doris Day, and she had a film called Pillow Talk, where she was an interior decorator. And I would just watch that over and over again. And it really and even the films that she was in, all of them, I would always be looking at the room sets, the style, the colour, the design. Probably as much as you know, focused on the the interior side of it rather than actually what people were talking about. So I don't suppose my brain ever really thought I'd be doing anything other than doing colour and design in some format. Right, right. And then I was lucky enough to get a work experience job when I was 15 with a Glasgow interior designer. And I went into that for a short time.

Judy Oskam 10:46

And I just knew that you know So you started early at 15 in the design world.

Emma Cross 10:53

I did, but then after that I didn't actually get

A Nontraditional Path Into Design

Emma Cross 10:55

into art school, so I had to take a bit of a curved uh ball, did a lot of work, traveling to Greece, um, worked in bars and things, and then I got a job in commercial interiors, which was doing office furniture, so not very sexy, but really good at learning the ropes for space planning and technical products. Yeah. And then I worked with a commercial wallpaper company, and then I worked for a house field of doing show homes, and then I was able to do that for a number of years and then start my own business. So I went about it in a very hands-on working experience rather than a university experience.

Judy Oskam 11:31

So well, in that time in Greece, that had to give you a different design lens, right?

Emma Cross 11:37

And just the colour and the flowers and the space. So yeah, very much so. Very fortunate to be able to have a life that was although not mapped out traditionally in the way some people would, it gives you more exposure to different places and different influences.

Judy Oskam 11:52

Well, I'm always fascinated by uh how creative people see the world. And you're the lens you look through, you're seeing it. I'm looking at a building in Greece very differently than you are. And the color and the the flowers and everything and just combinations and the patterns. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I suppose you do never switch off because I don't suppose creative, you're always looking at the angle. Yeah. What was it like when you went from working for someone to working for yourself?

Emma Cross 12:25

Um, I suppose because as a working uh mother, you go gradually into things because really when I set up on my own, the babies were little, and so it was a slow I'll fit work in around that. And then it just builds up, and now suddenly it's crazy bananas.

Judy Oskam 12:44

Yeah, yeah.

Emma Cross 12:45

Bigger than I thought it would be. I was only sitting on my own, you know, in the sunroom, typing away, you know, coming up with mood boards, and then it's kind of gone from that, and me and lovely Kate who works with me, just the two of us for a number of years, and then it's sort of escalated. And now, you know, everybody that the girls self-employed, they can come and go as they want. But um, there's a tea, there's a good team of us, you know, seven of us. So um, and then having two different buildings and two different businesses again, it's ramped up.

Judy Oskam 13:16

Yeah.

Emma Cross 13:17

So it kind of creeps up on you.

Finding Inspiration And Ignoring Trends

Emma Cross 13:20

To answer your question, I feel like I'm 110 and I feel like I never sleep. And it's I'm supposed you know Doris Day, because you don't look that old. I know Doris Day very well. Oh, I love Doris Day so much. Every time, and you know, I'll tell you something. I always go back to that. If I feel like I don't know what to do with a project or I'm a bit stuck and I can't see my way through it, I'll stop everything and I'll immerse myself in some films and I'll really think about things quietly in my head.

Judy Oskam 13:51

Get a good habit or strategy, right?

Emma Cross 13:53

Just a wee bit, take a step back, just sit down quietly and stop worrying about it and just look for things. Oh, that's a good way to focus. Yeah, that's a good sense. Yes, I love that. Always do that. I love that. So find whatever your the thing is, whatever your cannon is, and just quietly go back to it. And and I think a lot of people who run into creative problems in their own homes are trying to do things that they think they should be doing, not that they love. That's me. That's me. So you're following a trend, you're following advice. Well, I'm trying to find a trend. You shouldn't be trying to find a trend. You should just be really listening to what you want, being honest with yourself about what makes you happy. Because the projects I find the trick here is are always the people who are pretending to be something they're not, yeah, or pretending they like something they do. Yeah, trying too hard and they're not just enjoying it and going, what do I like? And it's okay to like it. Yeah. If nobody else does, it doesn't matter.

Judy Oskam 14:56

Well, I grew up in my mother, uh, who's gonna be 95 tomorrow? Uh she is was a a designer. And so everything was all about design and space and fabrics. And luckily, my two daughters are very designed. So this is great. It skipped the generation idea when we adopted.

Emma Cross 15:16

Maybe it was just too much. It was too much for me.

Judy Oskam 15:19

If you just imagine that because my mom always it was always designed, everything was designed. I would just walk in and it would be So she'd have done it for you.

Emma Cross 15:27

Yeah, yeah. Maybe perhaps that was all just so overwhelming. You don't need to worry about it. That's probably a therapy question. Maybe because they are my son might be like that with me because he'd be like, Oh, why can't we just have gray everything? I'm like, what? Like whose kid are you? You don't know you, you're dead to me.

Judy Oskam 15:44

Like you could do that when you've got your own house, but maybe that's what happens. It could be, it could be. But I love the style and I love the look, and when my students stumbled upon North Berwick. So, how how important is the location

How Place Shapes A Home’s Palette

Judy Oskam 15:57

with where we are geographically? Does the location make a difference?

Emma Cross 16:02

So, in terms of people's creative uh how they feel about their homes, yes, because they're in a coastal town and they mostly enjoy that, and it's part of their day-to-day routine. So we do an awful lot of work with coastal uh colours, if you like, so it really resonates and sort of they they have the outside coming in, and I think a lot of people really enjoy that. Um in terms of my business, I could be anywhere because I do a lot of work all over Scotland, so yeah, although predominantly it's on my doorstep, but um, yeah, so it influences the way we design people's homes because they tend to have quite outdoorsy coastal lifestyles, they tend to have dogs, they tend to play golf a lot, so they there's a lot of common factors with nature, a lot of connection with nature. 100%. Yeah, and I suppose you'd have a very different take on it in the borders where you'd be more trees and things and a lot more landlocked, we'd see different colours probably coming into play. So yeah, it is interesting. And in the towns, they tend to be more contemporary. Yeah, so we get more classic sort of laid-back design here, possibly.

Judy Oskam 17:08

So now looking back, you you bought the building. Any regrets?

Emma Cross 17:12

Any well, I didn't buy it, I'm renting it. And I would say the business, yes. No regrets. I feel like it's just been a lot to take on. Uh, but no, I'm lucky. So I've got a great space, you know. It's a building that takes a lot of upkeep. A lot of love. If you'd seen it before, it was a workshop down here. So it was ever it was uh full of guys doing, you know, upholstery. Um it was a very uh sort of functional, basic, you know, uh no-frills building, and now we're trying to morph it into an office. So it's been a labour of love. There's a lot of money goes into it just to try. I mean, you know, you can look around and see there's a lot of things that need done, but I try and focus

Two Locations One Brand Challenge

Emma Cross 17:57

on this that I can do easily and not look so much at those because there's not enough time. Um, but no, I'm not, I'm not, uh, I don't have any regrets. It's unfortunate I just signed a lease at the other shop in Gullen for five years when I got this opportunity. So I've tried to make both of those businesses work very differently, and that takes time. So that's a difficult thing to manage. And I don't want to let Gullen down either by not being there because it's a shame to have a lovely high street business that doesn't thrive for the community. Right. And the branding and the marketing is a challenge because they both have very different identities, sure. And as two separate businesses, trying to put them under one umbrella is hard. Right. And at the moment I'm going through that transition, and Daisy, my eldest daughter, is really helping me. She works for a company called Free People. Oh, yes. Big brand, part of anthropology, urban outfitters. And so she's working there and she works for me part-time. So she's got great skills coming from that big retail beach.

Judy Oskam 18:58

Oh, I saw the online shop, it looks really good.

Emma Cross 19:00

She's really good that's her baby. She has taken that and made it. However, I'm like the dinosaur now with the outdated uh oh mom, you can't be doing that. Yeah, right, right, right. But the interior design platform is a very different cloud base, and they're very different people, and it's a very different experience. So they always have their own identity. But in some ways, I need to learn a lot about how the language of the business speaks to both and draws people in. And we have a lot of problems with that because they're different styles of buildings, different feels inside, different clients. Sure. And that is a tricky, it's a tricky thing to manage how we can bridge that. So um always interested to hear what your pupils will think.

Judy Oskam 19:45

I realize this is an introductory class, but they they really had some good ideas. I love that though. They love this stuff. They love the dresses and the colour and the fabrics. Yeah, so it was great. Well, well, let me ask you, looking back, yeah, was there one experience that kind of shaped who you are today? And then what

Growing Up Around A Bigger World

Judy Oskam 20:04

story are you still writing?

Emma Cross 20:06

There's no one experience. I can't, I know that might sound it's not very dramatic, is it? But I had an unusual upbringing. I was brought up uh with my mum, so we were just the two of us, and mum was a living nanny, and so the first 12 years of my life I lived in a very big, gorgeous grand house in what we'll call servants' quarters, which is a really interesting way to live a life. So uh it was a house that wasn't accessible to us through our own means, but I got to live in something that I wanted and aspired to live in. So you saw the dream. I saw the dream, and I also understood how you live in those houses because I spent 12 years in that house learning how people live in those houses and what they do and what I could do and what I couldn't do. And for me, it gave me an insight into family living on a grand scale, which enables me now to go into many homes and understand them because they're similar size, similar people, and I can understand that how that works and how family works, how the bones of the building works. Yes, I would never have had any opportunity to understand that had I not lived in that house for those 12 years. So although at the time I may have felt a little bit lost and like not the underdog, but definitely, you know, behind the quarters. Because in the other quarters, what it did do is enable me to understand the life that I I wanted and be how to uh interact, speak the language of and have connections actually within that life. So that able was like a springboard for me to be able to use that in a very and we're still very good friends with the family. There's still a big that's great. So, however, I was a wee bit depressed when we left, and I realized that we didn't have any money and I had to live in a really awful flat house. Like I'm not used to this, so I very quickly had to go and get not that. I have that, but you know, uh get working. Yeah.

Judy Oskam 22:03

So that was an uh that probably Yeah, that was a great example because it showed you what you wanted and how to get there. And the path you went was your path.

Emma Cross 22:13

Yeah. Yeah. Very much so. I love that. That's an interesting story. I think uh at the time maybe didn't feel so interesting. But uh certainly looking back, it enabled all these things happen for a reason. They give you different uh ways of coping with situations and understanding them through a different lens. So yeah, I would say that's probably probably the biggest learning thing. And where do I want

Wanting Rest While Building Momentum

Emma Cross 22:36

to go? I would really like a house that I can just rest in because it it's always changing and always busy. Um we have a very big family, which is lovely. And I think I need to start taking more time for me. I think my business is good, it's strong. I never rest though. I need to keep it going, but it would be nice to be slightly more manageable perhaps as I hit my mid-50s and my energy is waning, and it'd be nice isn't really nice that my daughter's working. Yeah, that's fantastic. So, not that there's an empire to take over, but at least she's interested in it. And you don't know, you know, maybe one day she might want to suffer the burden of running a business. That's right. No, there's a lot. There's a lot there.

Judy Oskam 23:21

There's a lot there. I love that. Well, we will check back with you in a few years and see how it's going. Yeah, I really hope so. It's lovely. And I'll have my students come back and then. I definitely want that.

Emma Cross 23:31

I want them all to really come and help me because I need all the help.

Judy Oskam 23:34

Well, I will talk about that in class next week. And we will get some you use a couple strategies and some. I would love this.

Emma Cross 23:41

I feel like I don't have the headspace, let alone to do social media posts and to think about strategies. It just blows my mind. I need to need young people. Okay. All right. We're there.

Judy Oskam 23:52

We're at Queen Margaret University. So we're there for a little bit. So we're there for like five more days. So Monday we'll talk about it. Well, thank you for letting us just kind of drop in and and chat with you about this. So helpful.

Emma Cross 24:08

And you need to go and get a little colorful brooch upstairs or something. We'll do that. And my friends who know me will say, Yes, Judy, you need a little more color in your life. But I talk to people like you. Well, lovely. Thank you very much.

Judy Oskam 24:21

Emma Cross, thank you. Thank you very much. That's lovely. Yes, I do need to do that.

Closing Reflections On Small Turning Points

Judy Oskam 24:29

Well, and thank you for listening to my conversation with Emma Cross. What I found the most interesting about her story was there wasn't one defining moment that shaped her path. Instead, Emma had a collection of experiences. A childhood that gave her a viewpoint and a lens of a different world. Travel, a love of creativity, and of course color, and the courage to say yes. That's really important. Her story is a reminder that our journeys are often shaped by all of those small experiences. I'm Judy Oskam, and this is Stories of Change and Creativity because the experiences that shape us often become the stories we share.